Kelsey Pasquarell

Thank you so much for joining us today. Would you mind telling me how did you get started with your program on porn proofing your kids?

Rhonda Caluttung

Sure. Oh, hello, everybody. My name is Rhonda, I'm a Catholic homeschool mother of three. And I decided that I had wanted to take training as a life coach. So I was in my life coach certification program. And towards the end of it, I was in adoration just journaling before the Blessed Sacrament and asking God, you know, how do you want me to use the skills as a life coach and my experience as an educator, because I'm, I'm also a teacher and have been teaching for over 20 years, like how do you want me to use these skills to serve you and to help others and, you know, I was really expecting him to, to say something along the lines of coaching homeschool moms, on time management or weight loss or something like that. And instead, what he showed me was a glimpse of a website with the words Theology of the Body on one side, which is really exciting for me, because I love Theology of the Body. And then the word pornography on the other side. And I have to tell you, that that really threw me for a loop, I think, you know, I was sitting there in adoration or cozy comfy and you know, journaling with Jesus. And I think like, my head actually snapped up and I kind of went you what you want me to do what? Yeah, so it just really was this out of the blue calling. And it took me a while to figure out what that looks like. But eventually, I, I landed on a course for Catholic parents to help porn proof their kids, and I really couldn't find anything out there like it. And so yeah, the creating the course was, was really my response to trying to answer God's call.

Kelsey Pasquarell

Can you talk a little bit about how our exposure to porn and the availability of it has changed in recent years?

Rhonda Caluttung

Absolutely, 100%. And, and not even in former generations, Kelsey, like, I think it's more prevalent, even in my own lifetime. So when I was a child, like, I'm part of the Gen X, like, I'm at the tail end of Gen X. So I had this analog childhood, and then I only really, digital living only really became part of my experience in my early 20s. So when I was a kid, if someone wanted access to pornography, they had to really want it and be willing to experience a bit of embarrassment to get it. So, you know, they had to drive down to the corner store and face to face, ask the clerk for the magazines, they kept behind the counter, right? It, it really was this active sort of pursuing of this thing. But these days, as you mentioned, just with our social media, and our music, and our movies, or television shows our fashion, porn is pursuing us. Right? And not only is it pursuing us, but it's much more acceptable. It's much more normalized. And it's, it's just promoted in in a lot more ways. So absolutely. It's more prevalent than ever before.

Kelsey Pasquarell

Yeah, I have to say, as a parent of small children, I just find it really alarming. It seems like there's almost no way to, you know, prevent them from being exposed to it. And everywhere. Morality aside, though, if you want to talk about morality, you're absolutely welcome to What is the danger of porn to our families?

Rhonda Caluttung

Yeah. So the Catholics and like Christians that I've talked to tend to fall into one of two extremes in regards to the morality of it. So not everyone sees porn as a problem or something that's even sinful. So I've had even Catholic Christians say to me, well, it's not a big deal because it doesn't harm anyone. But on the other hand, I've I've encountered people who think that if you use porn, it's automatically a mortal sin. And neither of those are are the case. So porn is always a sin, like using porn is always a sin, but it's not necessarily a mortal sins. So when I talk to people, I try not to assume that they like where they are at morally like I because you just never know.

Kelsey Pasquarell

True, you don't know where they're coming from or what they learned or what they've heard.

Rhonda Caluttung

Yeah, so I was curious about it. So I asked a friend I asked two friends of mine who are priests and one of them referred me to the Catechism I'm of the Catholic Church, and specifically to paragraph 2352. And in that paragraph of the Catechism, it clearly states. Now this this particular paragraph is about masturbation not specifically about pornography. But since masturbation is almost always part of porn use, I think it applies here. So, the paragraph 2352 clearly states that, that masturbation is always sinful, and that it always has been considered sinful in the tradition of the church. But that it's, it's not necessarily a mortal sin, and that in order for it to be a mortal sin, many factors need to be taken into consideration, including the age of the person, habituation situation and so on. And to answer the second part of your question about the dangers to our families. Porn is addictive. It's not officially classified as an addiction by the American Psychological Association. So it's not listed in the DSM or the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. But it does meet all of the criteria for an addiction. So we want to be very careful with pornography because of its addictive nature. But also just because it's, it is a sinful, it is a sin, sorry. And sin is always harmful and damaging. And it's never an isolated event. So for those people who say to us, oh, it's not a big deal, because, you know, it doesn't really hurt anyone. It is a sin. And sin is always communal, that always affects not only the person sending, but all of their relationships, starting with their relationship with God, and then their relationship with themselves and then branching out to their relationships with other people. So porn is harmful, not only spiritually, but it's harmful mentally, emotionally, and even physically, for people. And the way that I've been thinking about it is, like, from an economic standpoint, so let's say that I'm being a real punk, and I throw a rock through a window in your house, I would never do that. But hypothetically speaking, and it costs you say, $500 to fix that window, right? So how much did it cost you to fix the window? So most people would say, well, it costs $500. But because that's what we see, right, we see the damage, and then we see the cost to put in the new window. But But the part about this theory that really fascinates me, is that is that what we don't see? Are the hidden cost? Or is the potential of what else you may have done with that $500 the opportunity cost of it, the opportunity cost of it? So? I think it is, so maybe you wanted to use that $500 to purchase an investment or to buy a cultural experience for your family or to I don't know, commission, a tailored jacket or something? Do you know what I mean? Like so? So we not only did you did you have to put that money towards fixing your window, but then then like, the tailor doesn't benefit from from the purchase of the jacket, or the the investment doesn't get purchased, or the cultural event doesn't get supported and attended. Right. So we don't we never see that cost,

Kelsey Pasquarell

right. There's all these ripple effects of what could have been.

Rhonda Caluttung

And I think the same thing applies to pornography as one of its biggest dangers, because think about the time, the effort, the energy, and sometimes even the money that is wasted, shall we say, on pornography? And what else could that time energy? Money be invested for? It's so true. Right? Yeah. So that's, that's, I think one of the hidden dangers. But one that's very subtle, you know, like if I think if Satan can loll a whole bunch of people into using pornography, then he has successfully taken some very powerful currency out of the economy, so to speak. True and

Kelsey Pasquarell

out of all the time in the family. Now, one thing that I've heard is that it can also change the way that people relate to each other, like people will begin to objectify One another woman who say about that,

Rhonda Caluttung

I say it's true. That is how it happens. St. John Paul the second said that the only proper response to a human person is to love them. And so pornography doesn't doesn't love the person and it what it does is it teaches people to use another person as a means to an end. And just to take kind of the opposite of your, the opposite spin to answer your question. I, I asked, I asked people who don't struggle with porn, why they don't struggle with it? Because I was curious, like, Well, some people struggle with porn, I want to know why. But I also want to know why people don't struggle with it. So I asked them, I'm like, why is porn not a problem for you. And some of the things that they said were things like, that's somebody's daughter.

Kelsey Pasquarell

That's a beautiful perspective, right, or

Rhonda Caluttung

what I have with my wife is way better than that. Or I'm accountable to God for my actions. Or what else when they say, oh, I need to set a good example for my children, they're thinking so much bigger, thinking so much bigger. So. So the Christian or the Catholic perspective is to see the whole person as, as the beautiful loving, or the beautiful and lovable creation that they are. Whereas porn really distorts that and teaches people to see others as a means to an end, as a means to self fulfillment and, and to objectify them. It is so interesting, it takes you it takes the image of them and it separates them from who they are. And that really is the essence of, of death, what death. That's, that's the definition of death. So the definition of life, or what makes something alive, is the marriage of a body and a soul. And that's where the Theology of the Body comes in. And that's one of the primary teachings of Theology of the Body is that we are embodied spirits. And so what pornography does is it separates the body from the soul, it separates the body from the person. And very profound, right, and the more the greater that separation, the the closer to death that we have, and when we think about the action of God, but is relationship and love and unity, especially if we consider the Trinity, right. Yeah, you are so right. The Trinity is my husband and I were actually talking about this recently, we were trying to define unity, and he was praying about it. And the Lord's answer to him was unity is

Kelsey Pasquarell

the Trinity.

Rhonda Caluttung

Yes. Yeah. And that's really what we're invited into. Right? That's the Beatific Vision is we're being invited and drawn into that unity. So when ever we're looking at the fruits of an action, we could say like, whatever it is a unit HIV is a life giving. Right. And that which is deceit brings disunity or dissociation is, is what brings us closer to death.

Kelsey Pasquarell

And that ripples right into our definition of sacramental marriage, doesn't it? Absolutely. unitive and procreative. Yes, 100%. Now, tell me because I know this is probably the main thing that everyone wants to know. What are some practical steps we can do to protect our kids from this culture of porn? And as you say, this this death then just permeating everything?

Rhonda Caluttung

Yeah, so the most practical thing you can do to protect your kids from porn is to porn prints them. You porn prove them by teaching them five things. And these five things come out of my conversations with people who don't study porn or who don't. Like don't struggle with pornography, and also from prayer and study and and from conversations with people who have overcome pornography. So so the five things that that kids and people need to know in order to be porn proof are, first who God is. Second, who they are. Third, what sex is. Fourth, what sin is, and fifth, exactly what to do when they encounter pornography. So if you truly and deeply know those five things, When you encounter porn, what happens is you are repelled and disgusted by it, which is the natural and just response to pornography. So I think of porn proofing your kids as putting a filter on their heart.

Kelsey Pasquarell

I think that's a very good holistic way to think about it. It really is going to be a lot more than just about the porn itself. Yeah, I

Rhonda Caluttung

actually, I have a theory, I can't prove this. But I have a theory that you can porn proof your kids without ever using the word porn, there's probably something to that. Because it's not actually about the porn, it's about all of the other things like it's more about God, and about fully understanding who God is and who we are in relationship to him. And then, as you mentioned, what sacramental holy sex is, and, and when what that truly means. And then what sin is and what it isn't. And when you know, all of those things, you know, you can really focus in you can do all of that without, without talking about pornography specifically. And that's especially important, I think, for parents to realize, parents with really young children, it's we don't want to, we don't want to damage their innocence in any way, right. But just the thing to know, you know, I really am porn proofing my five year old when I teach them the proper names for their body parts, or when I teach them to sing, yes, Jesus loves me, or when I take them to mass and explain what's happening during the consecration, those things are all working towards porn proofing your kids. You know, I could see that because I think, you know, sometimes we see there these programs that are like, for instance, for drugs, where they're not very effective, because what they do is they go into all the details about every single drug, and these kids who, like, never knew anything about it, learn about it for the first time, versus

Kelsey Pasquarell

program programs that instead help to build them up in terms of like, their understanding of their personal agency and the self esteem to not engage in the things their peers are pushing them into, are so much more effective.

Rhonda Caluttung

Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of the things that we, that we do to teach our kids who God is also inform us and teach us who we are as well. So that's something that I think is really beautiful. So when I go to Mass, it, and I, and I learn about who God is in the mass, right, that he's self sacrifice, that he sacrificed his son for my salvation, for example, well, what do I learn about myself from that I learned that I'm worthy of His love me, I learned that I'm loved. I'm loved to that extent. You said your value. Yeah. And you come to understand your true value. And the more we understand who God is, the more we understand who we are. And when we look in Scripture, God tells us who he is over and over again, in Scripture, like, we just celebrated Good Shepherd Sunday, right? So when God says, I am the good shepherd, that tells us who he is and who his character is, well, then who am I? I'm shepherded and protected, and part of the flock. Right, and it informs me about what my identity is. And that's something that I think is really beautiful.

Kelsey Pasquarell

And very important, very important to be grounded in that identity.

Rhonda Caluttung

Yeah. And so for people who are looking for sort of more practical things. One idea that I would propose is that, you know, because because we are living in domestic churches, or you know, striving to create our home as a domestic church. One thing we can do is create sort of a family environment and a family culture, that references who God is, and who we are as a response. So one thing that comes to mind is, our God is a God of beauty, and truth and goodness, right? So having beauty in our homes, and talking about why we have beauty in our homes, helps us to understand who God is and who we are, and what sort of a good and beautiful life is. Another example is and this is something that we all well, I don't know, I struggle with, I'll say is, our God is a God of order, and of peace. So I strive to create an environment in my home that is orderly and peaceful. But not only that, but I talk about why I'm doing that. All right, think God doesn't command anywhere that we have to have a perfectly minimalized home. But he does want us to live lives that are rightly ordered, and how can we? How can we image that and teach that and talk about that? It could be something as simple as saying, you know, God is really generous with us. And so, as a family, we are really generous with each other. And were generous by volunteering for this fundraiser, or what have you, and just making that connection?

Kelsey Pasquarell

Oh, I really love that. Now, I wanted to step back one step too. Earlier, you had mentioned that you had interviewed people who had recovered from porn addiction. And I think there's a lot of misunderstanding, or I should say, misunderstanding out there, a lot of people feel like you can't be free from it. Get into it. But I know a lot of parents are, you know, they have kids who are dealing with it already. What could you say on that from your experience and what you've encountered?

Rhonda Caluttung

Yeah, so the the folks that I talked to who have recovered from porn, they talked about the sacraments, a lot of just as a as a common underpinning. They had really profound and powerful experiences in the confessional. And in, in the Eucharist, and with the saints. And so they talked about that. The one gentleman that, that I was privileged to have a really in depth conversation with said that it just for him, it was so painful, and it got so bad that he, he decided that he was going to do absolutely everything he could to root it out from his life. And so he he chose a job that was really demanding. So that it sort of took a lot of his time and energy and attention, and really, really was disciplined with himself, he stopped going to the gym, because he found that that was a trigger for him. He stopped listening to the music that he had been listening to and started listening to, to other music, like Christian music. So he made a bunch of lifestyle choices, lifestyle changes, to help him to overcome that. That was a really extreme example. But he was really blessed in that journey. I mean, it sounds like really good steps to take. And I think there's something so true about the idea of the sacraments, because I often think of them as the shortcut to holiness, because they're, they are the quintessential example of us not doing things on our own seen. Just letting Grace help us. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But yeah, if anybody is listening, who is struggling with pornography, and who is or who knows somebody who is I just want to offer that God is always greater than that. Always greater. So no point no addiction, or nor no habit is definitive. Like, it doesn't define them. And the end people saying, Oh, well, it's just once you're addicted to porn, you'll never get over it. It's just a lie straight from the pit of hell. That's not true. There are ways to decondition a habit and to, to decondition pornography use and and that's something that that offers hope. So. The first step to that is really, you know, recognizing it and taking radical responsibility. But, but ironically, it involves learning to feel your feelings. Which is, which is something that I always find really surprising because a lot of people are turning to pornography to avoid feeling a particular way. Is that true? While addictions really all addictions and and not just addictions, but anything we do. Because there are addictions like capital, a addictions, you know, like drugs and, like, hardcore things, alcohol, things that are quite serious, but then there are, there are little things we do like, Oh, I'm really stressed out. So I'm gonna go get a snack, right like that over eating. It's, it's the same thing. Just on a smaller scale. We don't want to feel the stress. So we go eat the food when even though we're not hungry. That's not what we really want. Right? And there are ways to decondition that if it's to the point where it's out of control or causing you negative effects, like you know, causing you to use porn when you don't want to be or maybe missing a social event. That was something a client of mine said that doesn't broke my heart was that he was missing social events with friends in order to use pornography. And that's hard, right? Like, doesn't it just break your heart? Yeah, and so, so when you're in that situation like there are ways to decondition that and, and it and they involve learning to actually process and feel your feelings in in ways that are holy and healthy and break that break that response between the mind and the body. If that makes sense. It does

Kelsey Pasquarell

not round I want to give you a minute to tell us about your programs to

Rhonda Caluttung

a Sure. So I have three offers. The first one is an online course called porn prepare kids. It's currently in pre launch, and it's designed for Catholic parents. It relies on Theology of the Body and our Catholic faith. And then just some really practical tips and tricks like exactly how to exactly how to form proof your kids. And so it's a self paced online on demand course it's available for Catholic parents. The second thing I do is one to one coaching. So I offer one on one coaching. And I find myself really attracting a couple of groups of people. So one our homeschool moms, I coach homeschool moms. And then I coached people who either are struggling with pornography, or they have a spouse who struggles with pornography, or they're a parent who has kids who are struggling with pornography. And so those are the folks that I coach one on one, and that happens via zoom. And I actually am offering coaching right now for a really low price. So if someone happens to be listening to this on around the time that we're recording, I'm offering one on one coaching, it's only $25 for an hour. So that's an option. And then the third thing that I offer is, is to be a speaker, so to either come in person or to be an online speaker for say, a mums group or a parish or a retreat or, or an event and like I said that can be in person or online.

Kelsey Pasquarell

All of those sound like a really wonderful help. And it just gives me hope honestly, that there's someone like you out there helping families through this because it's an epidemic. It's an absolute epidemic. So thank you so much for doing that and for coming on today.

Rhonda Caluttung

Yeah, thank you. Our conversation has been a blessing. Thank you so much.